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virabhadrasana & heart

pascal
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Nov 13, 2004, 7:00 AM

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virabhadrasana & heart	Can't Post

Hello, happy yogis Smile

. When practicing virabhadrasana 1 for one minute on each side, and having a normal controled breath, my heart goes at 150 beat/min (taken at the end of the posture)...well, so far so good, but, what is the max heart speed you have experienced in yoga? in vira 1,2 or 3 , the heart accelerate, but : is it good for it (like aerobics) or bad (like nervous stress)? Unimpressed

(This post was edited by pascal on Nov 13, 2004, 7:01 AM)

astakoume
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Nov 14, 2004, 2:11 AM

Post #2 of 14 (3379 views)
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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

Pascal
The Illustrated Light on Yoga, page 45 (noted in bold letters) : All standing poses are stenuous, this pose (Virabhadrasana I) in particular. It should not be tried by persons with a weak heart. Even people who are fairly strong should not stay long in this asana.
Kristi

pascal
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Nov 14, 2004, 4:46 AM

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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

yes, i have this precious book and have red this about vira 1, but even if this pose is stenuous, what about 150 beat/mn? is it the kind of beat admitted ? what is the effect on heart? is it good because it improve your resistance or is it bad ? , and if it is bad, for what reasons? Unimpressed

what is a long time for a pose ? is 1 mn a long time ? In fact, i am not exhausted after , my breath is almost normal, i do not sweat particularly, there is just this 150 beat/mn that look so stange Shocked

; i usually have this rate in swimming, after 50m of butterfly style, but i have an exhausted breath Crazy

and need 1mn relaxing.

(This post was edited by pascal on Nov 14, 2004, 4:47 AM)

jot1
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Nov 15, 2004, 6:38 AM

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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

Your missing the most vital point about Virabhadrasana and that is to become an inner warrior (of course within the context of Hinduism) just like the Vedic Hero Virabhadra who was created by Siva. BTW, Happy Skanda Shasti to all the Saiva Hindus. The warrior lives on/in! Vel, Vel Muruga!

The reason why Hatha Yoga was never supposed to be revealed to the masses is because all the great Hindu Yogis knew people would miss the point and it would become just a "body thing." Pretty weak stuff.

Bryan Alexander
Enthusiast / Moderator

Nov 15, 2004, 7:11 AM

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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

Pascal, I have never heard teachers in this tradition discuss the heart rate in terms of beats per minute for the purpose of determining whether the pose is too strenuous, or whether the pose is being executed properly. Rather, I think the approach to determining whether this pose presents a problem would be to examine what you have already observed:
Is one's breathing disturbed during the pose? After coming out of the pose?
Does one feel overheated?
Also, observe these other signs that over-stress is occurring:
Does your teacher observe tension in your execution of the posture?
Do you maintain a relaxed throat?
Do you maintain a relaxed face?
Does the whole thing feel like a good challenge or a terrible struggle?
Do you maintain an energetic extension of the rear leg?

Developing this internal observation, in addition to trusting the observations of a teacher, are key components to the practice.

pascal
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Nov 15, 2004, 8:29 AM

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hi jot1

I could not answer a better way than C. Pisano , yoga instructor who stayed a long time with BKS Iyengar : "From the arrogance of the intellect the practitioner must descend to the darkest corner of his body wher he can meet his organic reality. (...) Which can be very frustrating."

pascal
Enthusiast

Nov 15, 2004, 8:37 AM

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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

hi, mr moderator Smile

well, i try to maintain a human face while practicing vira 1; Crazy

and i control (i think) the breath (if not, i would stop the pose); i shall ask my teacher wednesday about it, but what did intesrests me is how the practitionners reacts on the cardiac point of view . i am wondering if this acceleration of the rythm is due to the effort itself or to the stress on the backbone... well, maybe i ask too many questions about it Tongue

. let's practice and all will come (as pathabbis jois would have say Wink

)

yogini
Novice

Nov 16, 2004, 2:28 PM

Post #8 of 14 (3306 views)
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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hello Pascal and Brian!
While reading your dialog about Virabhadrasana I, I happended to remembered a quote from Yoga, the Iyengar way, by the Mehta family. This words had helped me while standing poses gets to challenging. I looked in my book and, such a coincidence: The quotation was just from page 27, the Virabhadrasana I page!
Here it comes:
"Do not be tense when doing the postures. Keep the face, throat, and abdomen soft. Before starting, take two or three breaths to calm the mind. Even when stretching to the maximum, breath normally and do not hold the breath. Keep the brain passive. Tension causes strain, which blocks the energy; correct practice generates it."
By the way, I was so lucky and happy to participate in a yoga week end with Corine Biria, last week end in Gotemburg! I had to say: it was an unforgettable experience! When I read your dialog about Virabhadrasana, or many other discussions in this forum, I want so badly to have the opportunity to ask this interesting questions to a teacher like her!
My heart beats also faster in Virabhadrasana I, but I dont think it reach the 150/s!
Have a nice and enlightening practice, everybody! (and sorry for my bad english, just in case!)

Nadia
Enthusiast

Nov 16, 2004, 4:16 PM

Post #9 of 14 (3299 views)
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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Pascal,

Is 150 bpm bad or dangerous? I looked up a few sites about heart rate because I never really measure my heart so x bmp doesn't mean much to me. Here's one if you're interested:

http://www.heartmonitors.com/heart_rate_basics.htm#Guidelines

It doesn't really say anything about heart rate in relation to yoga, but it doesn't seem like 150 bpm is anything to worry about. It's a tiring pose! But I find my arms get sore more than anything else, especially when you do a series with all virabhadrasana poses without putting your arms down in between Unimpressed

, it's definitely hard work! However I've never felt exhausted in a yoga class and if you don't either (it seems like you're pretty fit) then I'd say the heart rate is ok. Then again, I'm not a doctor Wink

.

Goodluck, Nadia.

Nadia
Enthusiast

Nov 16, 2004, 5:09 PM

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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi again,

I'm sorry, I was just talking to someone and he said that 150bpm is quite high (shows how much I know...) and that usually you're puffing quite a lot a this level. But you said that your breathing is normal, so that seems strange. Maybe you should try holding the pose for only 30 seconds and see what the difference is. How do you measure your heart rate? Could you have made a mistake? You'd think at a high level your heart would be thumping quite a lot in your chest. Does it feel like it's ticking violently or does it feel normal?

I hope I'm helping you a bit... Crazy

. Don't listen to me if I say things that don't make sense!

Bon courage, Nadia.

pascal
Enthusiast

Nov 17, 2004, 12:46 AM

Post #11 of 14 (3290 views)
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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

bonjour nadia Smile

in fact, i take my pulse just after vira 1, and during 10 sec , then i X 6, if i would take a pulse for 1 min it would be wrong because my heart is slowing down. i am not exhausted and i keep a long breathing. i believe it is due to the nervous tension (you know, like when you go to bed and discover a rattlesnake sleeping under your pillow Shocked

). i have a class tonight, and will ask my teacher about it; if the answer brings something new, i will post it here Smile

a bientot

pascal

(This post was edited by pascal on Nov 17, 2004, 12:49 AM)

Nadia
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Nov 17, 2004, 4:38 AM

Post #12 of 14 (3280 views)
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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

well I've never found a rattlesnake under my pillow, but that might be because we don't have rattlesnakes in Australia. We only have every other poisonous snake in the world. However, one day my sister did find a diamond python in her bed Shocked

but they're not dangerous. That must sound really crazy, but it's true! You must have a look of fear on your face when you do virabhadrasana, isn't it supposed be as jot1 puts it, about "becoming an inner warrior"?

I hope you don't find any rattle snakes under your pillow tonight, fais de beaux reves (well it's bed time here anyway, I know it's about lunch time everywhere else!)
A + Nadia Tongue

pascal
Enthusiast

Nov 17, 2004, 6:10 AM

Post #13 of 14 (3274 views)
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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

bonsoir nadia Smile

i did not use the image of rattlesnake in bed because of fear Unsure

(i should use salty water crocodile, they are more local Tongue

and nakrasana is one my favorite asana Cool

) ; vira 1 is not a fearsome asana , but to give an example of heart acceleration without effort. i think that the heart accelerate in some asanas because the nervous system is reacting, not because you are doing an important effort. this is why yoga is so specific : its action is focused on purifying the nervous system; so our reactions are more sophisticated than in sports like jogging , swimming, etc...

(This post was edited by pascal on Nov 17, 2004, 6:16 AM)

Nadia
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Nov 17, 2004, 3:19 PM

Post #14 of 14 (3261 views)
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Re: virabhadrasana & heart [In reply to]	Can't Post

That's interesting. I've never heard someone say that before about the yoga and the nervous system. Yoga seems to do so many unique things, I'm always amazed by it.

I don't know about you, but I think I'd be a bit scared if I found a rattle snake under my pillow, or a crocodile, for that matter... Although I'd also be wondering how it got there in the first place... Wink

a la prochaine fois, Smile

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