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shaming and humiliation

 
 

erin
Enthusiast

Jun 17, 2001, 4:39 AM

Post #1 of 6 (412 views)
shaming and humiliation Can't Post
Most of us who study with advanced level teachers and the Iyengar family have witnessed (and may have experienced directly) shaming and humiliation of, and intensely harsh words directed at students by the teacher in a class setting. It seems that this behavior, while it does not seem to fit within the guidelines of the Yoga Sutras (II:34,35)as I understand them, is considered acceptable. I have even come to accept it myself and even defended it, at times, as being necessary. The teachers at my studio are having an ongoing dialogue about this issue. We seem to be talking in circles (getting nowhere). I would like to know if anyone has heard an advanced teacher or an Iyengar speak specifically about or justify this behavior in relation to what the sutras have set forth. I wonder if it is cultural and our Western perceptions regard the behavior to be violent when that is not the intention. (In other words, are we just a bunch of wimps?) I believe that shaming is a powerful way to get a student's attention and force them to take a hard look at themselves - worked for me. However, it seems that often this behavior tends to get beyond the control of the perpetrator, but again is that not just my perception? I wonder, is there something about an intense and dedicated Iyengar style yoga practice that seems to cultivate this personality trait? Is it just passed down from teacher to teacher? As you can tell, I have very mixed feelings about this issue. I am grateful beyond measure for what Iyengar yoga has taught me and feel that the style and character of these teachings, about which I write, has been key in helping me stay motivated and focused. I wish to continue to deepen my understanding of this philosophy. If anyone can offer guidance on this issue it would be much appreciated.

assal
Novice

Jun 22, 2001, 7:39 PM

Post #2 of 6 (405 views)
Re: shaming and humiliation [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear Erin,
I have only been practicing yoga for three years but i have been on the quest for personal growth for a long time and i have had a few amazing mentors on my path.A couple of months ago the subject that you mentioned came up, and it is a very delicate matter to know when and HOW to use harsh words with a student or to point out one's flaws.It is all a matter of intention.
When a teacher is acting in such a way with the intention to break down a student's ego and sees in his harsh words or behavior no self satisfation then it can be said that all that has been done is pure, right and beneficiary to the student.But if a teacher adopts such manners and is still mentally and spiritually tied down to his ego, then it is very different.
A true teacher never puts down others to componsate for his/her personal complexes or to boost his/her ego.This does not only apply to a student/teacher relationship, but all human beings.It is a simple lesson but a very important one for all of us.
Also, always remember than in the spiritual quest nothing is black and white and you most learn to understand and know people individualy.The sutras are there as a guide, but every circumstance is different, and we must learn to become sensitive and see beyond people's words and actions and sense their intentions.I hope that this has been helpful to you,good luck on you quest, assal.

Bryan Alexander
Enthusiast

Jun 26, 2001, 6:17 PM

Post #3 of 6 (404 views)
Re: shaming and humiliation [In reply to] Can't Post
I haven't heard an advanced teacher address this issue, but I would like to offer my thoughts. Thanks for bringing up the subject.

Many yoga teachers I have met remind me of athletic coaches. An awful lot of yoga students are in it for the physical challenge, and so a coach is just what they want. Yoga as such is a kind of sport, and the practitioner might want to have her ego subdued in order to achieve the athletic victory. "Couldn't do lotus before, but now I can!"

Yoga as a practice of uprooting the ego, as described in Yoga Sutras, is not some kind of sport. It's not just about shedding egotism and embracing humility. Rather, it's about getting past the illusion that we are separate beings apart from all others.

The masters of spiritual practice warn us that this is very serious business. The teacher who takes on the role of helping the student to achieve liberation is a guru. I don't believe a guru takes that role without being asked to do so by the student, who would then become a disciple.

Do Iyengar yoga teachers really offer this kind of relationship?

A teacher who decides to use shame or humiliation really is messing with a student's unhealed emotional wounds. The consequences can be intense, and therefore the teacher has a responsibility to know how to handle them. Knowledge of the student's mental health history would probably be essential. Do Iyengar yoga teachers receive training in emotional dynamics and psychology?

I suspect that the teachers I have known are trying to accept as many students into classes as possible. That's fine if the teacher's intentions are pure. But the reality is that the classes fill up with students having all kinds of different expectations, beliefs, and motivations. Some are devoted yogis but adhere to principles which differ from those set out by Patanjali. Many of them are definitely not interested in having their minds messed with. Is the teacher going to respect that?

Tales of enlightenment by the aid of a guru that I have felt were most trustworthy did not involve much shame and humiliation. The disciple invariably gained a sense of Atman because she saw that the guru knew her completely, and unconditionally loved her.

Anonymous
Novice

Jul 21, 2001, 3:29 PM

Post #4 of 6 (403 views)
Re: shaming and humiliation [In reply to] Can't Post
I understand very well what you mean...unfortunatelly gurji is hooked on cofee(you wouldn't believe how many espressos he drinks!)...his followers(teachers) know actually very little about yoga-because there're for the $$$ and their ego and they don't really care for the rest a sort yoga 'maffia'
my best advice: try yoga without names, fees, programmes, and assholes-teachers...yoga is above all about love(yes...love) and intelligence...there's hope and believe me is not coming from Poona but from within yourself.
cheers

Gabriel
User

Jul 24, 2001, 12:22 AM

Post #5 of 6 (402 views)
Re: shaming and humiliation [In reply to] Can't Post
Just a thought - I've seen teachers of a number of different (European) nationalities and personalities get stern with their students, each in their culturally-specific ways, and whether it amounts to shaming or humiliation can depend on the cultural background of the exchange. What's really important to me as a student is whether the teacher's approach really is spontaneously reacting to whatever the student is doing or is somehow a mannered attempt to "to break down a student's ego" (i.e. is aimed against the person and not some aspect of their action). Regarding Erin's original point about how this might be passed down from teacher to teacher, I wonder whether something that is a playful (and quickly forgotten) loss of temper for an Indian might come out very differently if imitated by an AngloSaxon and for that reason "get beyond the control of the perpetrator".

Every teacher can and should have their unique way of presenting "tapas"/ discipline and shouldn't feel obliged to use shaming as part of their teaching if it doesn't come naturally to them as teachers or work in the cultural context in which they teach.

Scott Higgins
Novice

Nov 28, 2001, 12:14 AM

Post #6 of 6 (398 views)
Re: shaming and humiliation [In reply to] Can't Post
Dear Erin
Thank goodness you are grappling with the issue, it seems your teachers have less qualms. There is no justification for such behaviour - it crosses a line that the teachers are not qualified to cross; and reminds me of primitive cult behaviour, or the teaching methods used early last century & before. The psychology of teaching is as much an art as Yoga itself - if a student cannot move through a barrier, a blockage, then the teacher must show patience and love; not psychological violence and ineptitude. Each person has their own journey, their own pace& their own awakening - the teacher is there for guidance, support and should behave as a beacon of light, a model of yogic behaviour. They are not there for displays of primitive anger and frustration. Change schools! And report them to the Iyengar Association ASAP.
Scott

 
 
 


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